Planet Notion - Deerhunter Interview!

www.planetnotion.com

24/09/2008

Thanks to a strapping young lad who works in the office, I’d been introduced to the music of Atlanta garage-rock band, Deerhunter a few months back. Handy, I'm sure you'll agree. Alas, captivated by the sound of new album Microcastle, which leaps delicately between ambient rock and the heavier sound of previous Deerhunter incarnations, I jumped at the chance to share a few words with (occasionally cross-dressing) frontman Bradford Cox. Hell, I’d interviewed close friends The Black Lips and Jay Reatard in the past and figured I may as well make it a God darn hat-trick. That said, the interview was to take place at the infamous Columbia Hotel, the very same Columbia Hotel in which I’d shared a few beverages with one Anton Newcombe. Ah, the memories. The Brian Jonestown Massacre frontman had threatened to hit me in a state of intoxication and I’d stood up to the challenge, fighting him off with a barrage of equally intoxicated abuse. Twas like something from The Bad, The Bad and The Fucking Ugly. Things did not bode well at this familiar haunt… Nevertheless, Bradford Cox proved to be a gentleman and a scholar; a charming man; an interesting man; a man of many words and many pauses… Here he discusses everything from solo project Atlas Sounds to Roxy Music, the death of rock n’ roll and how the Beatles wanted to be American cowboys. We kick-off the interview with Bradford munching on one of Prêt-a-Manger’s finest. If memory serves, it was a BLT. Words: Dangerous Dave / Photography: Barry Klipp

Bradford: Do you mind if I keep eating while I talk to you?

Dangerous: No, not at all… by all means…

All right…

Was it always your intention to perform from a young age?

(Munching sandwich. Long pause)…Sorry… (More munching)…I bit off more than I can chew… (Hard swallow)… I guess I find it kind of, um, hard to avoid performing; I always have. It just comes naturally you know? I mean like even when I was at school I was always grand-standing and stuff like that, you know? It’s almost like a reaction against, um… a fear of boredom maybe?

Yeah. I mean I interviewed the Black Lips and they’re obviously from Atlanta as well, and they said that the music was almost a form of escapism for them because there wasn’t a lot to do there. Would you agree with that?

Oh, absolutely. I think that’s absolutely true.

In what sense?

Well, especially with us and the Black Lips. It’s like we both… we both had really confusing, shitty pasts. I mean like Cole (Alexander), who’s one of my best friends - the singer, one of the singers, well they all sing - but Cole and I, you know, we were very close when both our bands were kind of getting exposure or whatever; before we got too busy to talk to each other. But he was, you know, washing dishes in a diner and I worked at a photo lab; I thought that was what I was gonna be doing for the rest of my life. And I think he thought - honestly, in the back of his mind - in his head, he was afraid that he was gonna wash dishes for the rest of his life too, because nobody expected that anybody would pay any attention to us or care; you never expect that. I mean I guess some people expect it but… My intention is - relating to your first question, is that yeah, I’ve always felt like entertaining was very natural for me and it’s also something I thought would never get me anywhere; it was just something to make a boring life a little more fun.

Let’s move onto the new album now (Microcastle). It seems to have gone in a different direction to Cryptograms (Deehunter’s second album) in a lot of ways. Was it always your intention to develop your sound? You know, was it a conscious decision?

Ahh, well I think there’s always an intention to move forward and not be to, um… repetitive! And I don’t mean that in actual musical terms, because I mean repetition is something we’re kind of obsessed with – musically, not in terms of repeating the same ideas. I mean in a song; repeating the same motives; you know, repeating the same chords and making stupid… you know what I mean?

Sure…

It goes without saying… I mean in terms of repeating greater themes of an album, I just find that to be kinda boring and bands that do that tend to be kinda very mediocre. I’d rather make an album that’s kinda awful but at least a challenge, you know? It was a challenge, I mean it was actually an easy challenge to change the style [on Microcastle] because I don’t have a very good attention span… Plus I mean… it was easy. It was just very natural.

Sure, because with Cryptograms you seemed to be pouring your heart out; it seemed to have more, sort of..

Catharsis?

Exactly! And the thing with Microcastle…

...well Cryptograms, you have to keep in mind, was made before anyone at all was ever paying any attention to us. I mean I’d hate to imply that… that I made Microcastle with any type of consideration for what anyone would think of it, because that’s not what I’m saying; but I didn’t… I guess what I mean to say, more than that, is that with Cryptograms I had no idea people were actually going to listen to it, so it was easier for me to just get like… naked, you know? Whereas with Microcastle… (Long pause)… I just sort of wanted to have a bit more dignity! (Chuckles)

So was it [Microcastle] more a labour of love than Cryptograms in a sense? More…

Wellll… I think Cryptograms was maybe more of a labour of love, and this is more a labour of, um… it’s more considered; more thoughtful. Cryptograms is really, I’d go as far as to say, a little embarrassing!

I think there are a lot of people who’d disagree.

Well I mean like embarrassing in terms of like, everybody seems to consider - and with the Atlas Sound record too, like a lot of people seem to really read into the emotional side of it.

And what about Atlas Sounds… Do you think that working on that project helped to develop Deerhunter for the Microcastle record?

I think that it kind of clarified what Deerhunter’s goals were in a way; because with Cryptograms - I’m very much interested in electronic music and ambient music and stuff like that, but I’m also like very much interested in just rock music. I’m kind of a traditionalist and I’m very conservative in a lot of ways about rock music. I like bands that experiment well, but I don’t like bands who just set-out to be experimental rock bands, do you know what I mean? I think Roxy Music are a band like that. They didn’t set-out to be, it was more that they were a rock band who had weird albums. You know what I’m saying? And I think now, with a lot of bands, because they have that past and [all] that music history to look at, it’s easier for them to say “We’re going to be an experimental band or an experimental rock band”; and I guess what I’m trying to say is that I’d rather Deerhunter just be a rock band that has weird, interesting albums, but is a rock band… Atlas Sounds is just way more like, bizarre!

I can definitely see that…

You know like part of what I wanted to do with Atlas Sounds was kind of like… it was a Laurie Anderson kinda thing. I mean she made amazing pop records but they were just so fucking weird and so totally bizarre. And so doing that record [Atlas Sounds] made Microcastle a lot more easy to concentrate on… That’s why it’s kinda more straight and not so filler - full of concepts and ideas; more direct.

But what about the concept of rock music; I mean traditional rock music; blues rock like The Doors and the Stones… Do you think that kind of rock music has died a death now? That what we’re seeing now are just manifestations of that kind of rock?

Well… I think of rock music as a kind of tapestry that was at a peak and all around the time of the bands you mentioned. Like Dylan and one of my favourites is, you know, Van Morrison and Them - they did Gloria! And then going onto punk and you know, Patti Smith - Elvis before that, you know what I mean? The whole tapestry of rock was at its peak then and they were

literally the prototypes, you know? The experimental research prototypes in a way. And then it became very easy to figure out what made those things successful and to emulate that; and then you had the 80s and there was a lot of mediocrity - a lot of Hughie Lewis and the News. But there was also a lot of 4AD you know? Like Cocteau Twins and… which I think in a way has a lot more to do with Elvis than Hughie Lewis and the fucking News! (Chuckles) You know what I mean? Because it’s more in the spirit of like, I mean it sounds very cheesy, but it’s like, just being yourself and… (Fails to finish sentence)

Do you think that kind of development in rock music is a positive thing?

Well I dunno why I just said that whole thing that I just said because I think there are a lot of bands recently that have been evoking, you know, that original spirit of rock… Black Lips - and bigger bands too! The Strokes; White Stripes... You know, these bands are very successful and very - and that’s the other thing! Rock n’ roll wasn’t intended to be kept under the closet; to be kept under the ground, you know? Rock n’ roll is boisterous and it’s an American sort of capitalism. You know even the British groups, like the Stones and The Beatles, modelled or emulated the American big-dick-like swagger, because it was like “Hey yeah, we’re huge, we’re the biggest thing in the world.” You know that’s kind of an American, um… I mean like look at our president, he’s kinda rock n’ roll - in an awful way! But you know that’s the kinda mode, it’s the model, that whole swagger and the capitalism of it, which I think is very healthy. I mean I’d rather see someone act that way than artificially timid and like, you know - I hate false modesty! I love hip-hop, like Lil’ Wayne. These type of characters are just very like “I’m the best, I have so much money, fuck you!”

They’re extroverts…

Yeah! Kind of extroverted and that kinda bragger… that braggered (sic) kinda attitude - which to me, is really like more honest… more honest, even if it’s a lie!

With Microcastle I kind of got the impression from the opening four or five tracks, that you’re kind of looking back, reminiscing about the past and looking at the present…

Can you type that lyrically?

Well… in the opening tracks, they seem to open with you exploring the past, looking back at your past and…

Really?

Yeah, I kind of got that impression, but…

Well that’s good I mean, um, definitely I would think that that would be a good or a very valid interpretation… I dunno…

…the past, but also looking at the present and how you’ve developed from then. Would that be a fair analogy?

Well to be completely honest with you, I don’t think about the lyrics too much - and I don’t mean that in, you know, like a cheeky way, I mean that in a kind of… If I do think about them too much they just get kinda awful and brainy and too like trying to be clever and stuff. So I usually just throw the words to the music that fit the best and usually find that that’s the most honest way of doing it. And then usually I can say the most honest things. So if that’s what you get from it, I mean I haven’t really taken the time - honestly, to really analyse my own lyrics, because if I do that too much I get really self conscious and I’m like “Ugh!” You know like on Cryptograms, somebody pointed out to me - it’s been pointed out to me, that I’m totally self-conscious. They pointed out that I talk about being a teenager a lot, specifically I use 16 - age 16 a lot in lyrics; and I was like, “I do?” And like when I looked back and saw that I did it, I was like, “OH! This is terrible, I’ll never use that again”… So I mean I very well could be kinda looking back on the past from the present; that could be a very good interpretation. But I haven’t… I honestly - when I start playing the songs on guitar like tonight at the show or something, I never forget the lyrics. I remember them. But like if you asked me right now what the lyrics to such and such were, I’d be like… I couldn’t think of them off the top of my head without hearing the guitar first, because the lyrics are very much written to the guitar first… like to the music.

Right, so you’ll write the music first and then develop the lyrics from the music…

Um, usually what I’m doing - sometimes I’ll do them all at once, but what I’m doing is I’m playing guitar and doing the singing onto a tape recorder, very much at the same time… Consciously, you know?

Sure, but themes … I mean to write the music do you think of an idea or a theme and try to interpret that idea into your music?

Occasionally I do, but those are like more… those are rarer moments where I try to experiment with something consciously, you know… Usually I feel less comfortable doing it like that. I feel more comfortable doing it all at once, not thinking - which I know might sound lazy to some people, cos’ there are other people that just sit there and labour over the construction of their work, with their words and their notepads and stuff; I’m just not like that…

But then with Deerhunter, I think mood is probably more important to create than…

Yeah mood is much more important to me than the delivery or… well, the exact words and stuff.

Sure. And what kind of mood were you trying to get across in Microcastle, because it’s kind of split into sections really…

It is sectional. It’s sectional… maybe a little hard to explain. I actually haven’t thought of that in a while. Honestly, I think it has something to do with, um… (Very long pause)… like… 50s and 60s America… (Another long pause)

Were they major influences on you, those periods?

Just for right now, yeah. Not like typically, but yeah. I mean I’m interested in that currently - or I was, especially during the making of [Microcastle]… Like JFK and Martin Luther King; Coca Cola… I think I keep this kind of cartoonish - I have this kinda cartoonish self-image of America that I really obsess over or enjoy. Maybe touring so much around Cryptograms made me a lot more happy about America or you know, home-sick? I tried thinking about, you know, American rock n’ roll; American sensibilities; American neighbourhoods… It’s a lot less emotional too, although the lyrics don’t seem less emotional but they’re like… I have a feeling there’s just far more traditional rock there, you know? Like “Oh baby, yeah, yeah, yeah,” you know, “I love you… oh yeah, oh yeah,” you know? Stuff like that is like less heavily considered.

What about the track ‘Saved by Old Times’ with Cole Alexander [Of the Black Lips]. How did that come about?

Well Cole just, um… we got him on iChat - the video chatting or whatever in the studio. And we plugged my computer into the mixing desk and I said ‘Hey Cole, go for it! Just like, freestyle over the song!’ Anyway, we kind of played it for him over the computer speakers and he just like freestyled. And then he did it twice, in the left channel and in the right channel. The left channel’s him doing some weird minstrel song about being a black alien or something; about being an old black man in space and time… And then the right channel, some of that was stuff that I’d written… Originally, when I wrote the demo for that song, it was very much a complete and total rip-off of The Fall. You know how Mark E. Smith would have these moments in his songs where he would just talk, like on Mere Pseud Mag. Editor, you know? On Hex Enduction Hour there’s that part where he just starts talking or he’d just start, not even talking, just ‘la-da-da-la-la’ and… So I was just like, if I got a speech part in the song during the breakdown I wanted to have - plus that was a big thing in the 60s too! You know like the girl groups and even earlier than that, the 50s with the black vocal groups where the singing would stop and someone would be like ’Baaaby, you know how much you mean to me.’ I wanted to do it in a kind of perverted, satanic way too. That’s how that came about. I mean me and Cole are basically the same creative spirit. I just think that he’s a little bit more like, anal and… what’s the word? Extrovert! More like anally retentive and more like sub-conscious. Cole’s just more like, rubbing his poop on the wall!

Do you think Microcastle is quite a big journey from beginning to end? Do you see it as a journey from one place to another…

I can see how you can see it like that and I don’t think you’re wrong. I think… but I don’t view it that way so much because...

How do you view it?

Well I mean, it’s boring… I don’t even want to talk about how I view it because it’s more like I view it how it was made; in pieces. And I don‘t want people to think of it that way. It’s like when you think of a movie you want people to think of it as a narrative from beginning to end, you don’t want to think about the fact that it was shot out of sequence, you know what I mean? Some of it was shot in 2004 and some of it was shot in 2006 and you know, it was edited together and there were computer graphics and… do you know what I‘m saying?

It’s become more spontaneous?

Yeah. I mean I want it to feel like a journey; I want it to build narrative…

What about the development of your sound. Will you be developing your albums further; exploring new ideas?

Oh, well I think every album will be a different experiment, you know? This album is experimental in the fact that it was so conventional, you know? The next album I think will be more, um, based on individual songs; it’ll be a lot less connected… I mean, you know like how Cryptograms flowed like one song - the songs never really stopped, they were always kind of melting into each other and stuff. And then Microcastle has that a little bit but also it’s more like, there are more individual songs. It’s more solid. The next one I think is going to go further in that direction of like - I think I want every song to be recorded in a different place, by a different person with a different instrument… I have a concept for the next album that I want to try, that’s based on like… I want the next album to be more like a documentary in terms of I want every song to be like a tribute to a certain era of rock music in the 20th Century or something. Like if you went to a used cassette store and got the cassettes out and started listening to one song from each one, you know what I mean? Just totally different atmospheres for each song. I mean like I don’t want it to blend together at all, I want it to be maybe like 12 or 13 or 14 individual songs from different albums and that sort of… And so that’s like my ideas and, um… but that’s very early and I’ve only written like a few pieces of songs. I haven’t even written a full… (Fails to finish sentence)

Have you got any collaborations in mind for the album, because I know you worked with Jay Reatard on…

I’m always thinking about that, you know? Like it would be cool to… And people contact me and they’re like ‘Hey, why don’t you come do this,’ you know? Like buddies and friends and… I’m into that, you know? I’m into that a lot because it’s just so funny to transpose different personalities. I especially like working with The Black Lips.

They’re a fun bunch.

Yeah. We just get along really well and have like, really a lot in common in terms of taste and… attitude I guess. It doesn’t look that way maybe; maybe we look more cerebral or artsy or something and they look more like traditional or masculine or something but… I mean I really rate them a lot.

Fantastic. Well I know you’ve got a lot to do, so I’m going to rap this one up in a second… But are there any future plans you’ve got that are worth talking about?

Um, I mean other than working on the next record and, um, touring and stuff...

And what does Microcastle mean to you?

(Long pause)… To me it’s just like, a very 50s, 60s like… I think it’s a tribute to like sentimentalist’s rock n’ roll, you know?

Excellent… Cheers. Thanks Bradford.

Great to meet you. It’s been a pleasure…

Microcastle is released on 4AD/Kranky Records, October 28th. To visit the band’s MySpace page CLICK HERE.